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Thread: War with Iran

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    War with Iran

    The US is looking for any excuse to go to war with Iran. They have been working on it for a while. One day Trump is saying Iran is doing wrong because they are not abiding by the nuclear agreement that he himself backed out of. I mean come on. Now here we are Iran shot down one of our drones. Iran says we were flying in their air space, we say we weren't. Why the heck would Iran shoot our drone down if we weren't? I am sure that they don't want to engage in a war with us that they know they would lose. This makes no sense. https://www.apnews.com/e4316eb989d5499c9828350de8524963

    We are also accusing them of attacking the ships, but this could be a false flag. We have done things like this many times before. The truth is that Iran for a long time still abided by the nuclear deal long after we backed out. They abided by it with the other nations that were part of the agreement. But we were sanctioning Iran, in a terrible way crushing their economy and causing starvation. We are taking a liking to using starvation as an act of war. We threatened other nations that did business with Iran, other nations were still helping Iran but they are folding, due to our pressure.


    We have proof that Bolton had previously stated publicly that he wanted regime change in Iran and that we would accomplish it. How can we trust an administration who says they are not seeking regime change or war, after they are already on recording saying they are seeking this very thing? It is like believing Trump when he says the over 20 sex assault accusers are lying after he was caught on hot mic saying he does touch women without their consent, he said because when you are rich women let you do what ever you want. I am not sure what is wrong with our intelligence these days? But we need to look at what ever facts and evidence we have and make decisions for ourselves, instead of being told what to believe because it might be popular. https://theintercept.com/2018/03/23/...iran-end-2018/

    Here is another article that MintPress put together on what they believe is Bolton's plan for Iran. https://www.mintpressnews.com/regime...e-east/239714/

    We should pay attention



    I do believe that a major part of why we are doing this is for Netanyahu. I believe it is all part of a larger plan for the Middle East. I believe that we are going to try to make Saudi Arabia a nuclear power. Saudi Arabi and Israel will work together to control the middle east. This is my belief. They will sell it under the guise of the middle east peace plan. I believe that it is something that Trump had planned long before he became president. He is working closely with others who have this very plan. It is said that Trump talks in person or by phone with Sheldon Adelson at least twice per month, and has dictated several of our politics already. Netanyahu is strongly encouraging war with Iran. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1TL28M

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    Senior Member Just AnotherPerson's Avatar
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    This sounds somewhat like a hit piece and I don't like the tone of it. But I do believe there are a few bits of information and facts that can be taken away from this video by the New York Times.


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    America gets away with a lot of things on the international stage as they have the ability to fool all of their people, all of the time.
    The people, on the other hand only believe that propaganda is practiced on them by the 'enemy' when in fact the enemy is their own government.

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    Senior Member Just AnotherPerson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beevee View Post
    America gets away with a lot of things on the international stage as they have the ability to fool all of their people, all of the time.
    The people, on the other hand only believe that propaganda is practiced on them by the 'enemy' when in fact the enemy is their own government.
    What you say is true, but also they may fool some of us, but not all of us. I think most just feel like there is nothing they can do so they just don't say anything. People also don't want to disrupt their lives. People are so busy just trying to survive, so they ignore it and hope that one day it does not land on their doorstep. I think the real reason is just that Americans are busy, and worked to death, at least the majority are.

    If only the people would realize that not putting up with it didn't have to disrupt their lives. Most don't know much about how our Democratic Republic works. All we need to do is speak up. Congress is supposed to act on our behalf and take into consideration the will of the people. The people need to take part in their democracy and vote, and let their reps know exactly what they want and how they feel. We need to put the pressure on congress, so that they will do the will of the people. It is pretty simple. But people don't realize their power. Instead we have meltdowns and people take to the streets in frustration. But I do not believe that is the answer. We can still have powerful voices without taking to the streets.

    But yes we are being manipulated by our gov. The gov is corporate owned. There are only a small handful who aren't. The real answer is to get money out of politics this way our gov will work for the people who vote them in, not the corporations who line their pockets. I don't feel the gov is the enemy. Rather the corporate gov is the enemy. This is something that the people could change if they really wanted to.

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    Your politicians are the enemy. If they had any scruples, they wouldn't let themselves be bought by big business. They probably felt that way when they first took office but then found they were being manipulated from the get go by the party. Both party's are responsible.
    What makes you believe that Congress has the power? Trump has made it evident that they don't. He owns the GOP and deplorables are happy with that.
    But he has opened a door that won't easily be closed because when the Dems regain power, they will have a lot more backbone than they have now, having realised the president is capible of doing whatever he chooses and getting away with it too.
    The US has turned the corner. The future is an elected dictatorship, whoever is in power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beevee View Post
    Your politicians are the enemy. If they had any scruples, they wouldn't let themselves be bought by big business. They probably felt that way when they first took office but then found they were being manipulated from the get go by the party. Both party's are responsible.
    What makes you believe that Congress has the power? Trump has made it evident that they don't. He owns the GOP and deplorables are happy with that.
    But he has opened a door that won't easily be closed because when the Dems regain power, they will have a lot more backbone than they have now, having realised the president is capible of doing whatever he chooses and getting away with it too.
    The US has turned the corner. The future is an elected dictatorship, whoever is in power.
    First I want to say, I love your spirit. :) I don't completely disagree with you. But I see it slightly different. Congress does have the power, but they are not utilizing that power because they are bought and paid for. If they wanted to they could reassert their constitutional authority.

    Trump has made it evident, true, but he is violating the constitution, and congress is allowing him to do so, at least the majority of congress is.

    Honestly I don't see any difference between Democrats and republicans. I feel that is just something used to divide us. If you look at the actions and policies of current and past presidents there is not much difference no matter their party. They just claim different reasons for those actions but the actions are the same.

    Also not all of our politicians are bought just most of them. But something new is happening. People are getting sick of it, and waking up to it. We now have people stepping up like AOC, Rokhanna, Bernie Sanders, and Tulsi Gabbard and more. Who are taking it into their own hands to no longer be bought and paid for and exposing corruption where they find it. This is something new, the more people that we have that step up the sooner we will get corruption out of politics. The good ol boy club is on their way out the door. I see this as a new trend. The people are taking their nation back. How much more so if one of these uncorrupted people become president.

    I don't lose hope because I can see what is happening. This is the reason that the politicians who have stepped outside of being bought are attacked so fiercely they endanger a corrupt system that has ruled our nation for so long. It is tough to lose power and that is exactly what is happening. There are a few cracks in the dam, and they are trying furiously to plug them before the whole dam breaks. But in this scenario when the dam breaks the people will be freed. No longer the slaves to a corrupt system.

    Our nation survives off of the backs of the people, and prospers off of the blood of children around the world. This will not end unless we get money out of politics.

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    It's an interesting observation from somebody interested in politics (you) but there are 300m plus people to convince. Most view politics as an irritation and accept the consequences of whatever burden is placed on them by either party.
    I have a feeling you are too optomistic in that change is around the corner because 99.9% of Americans haven't suffered and cannot even conceive the results of war, when they haven't been directly affected by it.

    I'm a Brit, born in 1940 and can recall fleetingly my mother putting me under the bed every night when the air raid sirens gave warning of another German bombing raid on London.
    In the later years after the war, I went to school and on going and returning home, played with others on bomb sites. It's something we grew up with and learned to accept. It's almost 75 years later now and the war is in the past, maybe remembered but not spoken of and certainly not celebrated, other than on armistice day.

    Americans think they suffered the same on 9/11. They didn't. It happened in one place on one day within one hour. A bad as it was, it was not an attack on 50 American states in the way destruction occurred in London, France (not Paris as it was declared an open city) Leningrad, Dresden and in much the same fashion, whay the leaders of N.Korea, China, Iran etc have done to their people.
    Americans do never consider destruction on a massive scale because they have never experienced it. With what they did experience in New York is something miniscule by comparison. Not that I don't realise the impact on them but the soul searching is way over the top. It still gets regular mentions on the other forum, so it's still foremost in many peoples minds.
    You think the Iranians, Russians, N.Koreans and Chinese haven't noticed the never ending references to 9/11? Of course they have and it's their ammunition in any future conflict because they have experienced terror on aregular basis when Americans only talk about it. You think they don't notice the apoplexy at the death of just one soldier and the no one left behind philosophy?
    It's the greatest chink in American armour and your enemies won't hesitate to use it.
    Last edited by Beevee; 06-20-2019 at 06:08 PM.

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    That second video on the "MEK", should be an eye-opener for people. A terrorist organization in Iran made up of a handful of people gets asylum in the US, then beats the war drums on behalf of the oil companies, acting as a concerned alternative to the government of Iran. They are getting a lot of money from somewhere to lobby our politicians, who are too stupid to ever say no to a campaign contribution, and would sooner listen to Al Qaeda themselves over the people they are supposed to represent if they gave them money or even just bought them lunch.
    I know this lady who is leading the MEK fancies herself the next Iranian president, and she cites the religious leadership in Iran, and their intolerance for Western decadence, as a reason we should all go and die to overthrow Iran. In reality, there are several agendas going on here at once.
    Sheldon Adelson and his billionaire ilk, along with the Saudi royal family, have a plan where Saudi Arabia and Israel split the middle east between themselves, both being nuclear powers soon with this administration's help, are pumping in money and spreading terrorism in the entire region. Then there is the companies that make up the military industrial complex, like Raytheon, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Electric, Westinghouse, etc. They have everything to gain by selling more weapons, weapons platforms, technology, and operational necessities. These companies have zero interest in peace anywhere in the world. Peace, to them, means no business.
    I cannot think of any other Arab nation in the world where there is more tolerance than in Iran. Much like Venezuela, we want to bring them democracy. This sounds great until you remember that Venezuela's President was elected by the vote of the people, in an election even more fair than elections we have in the United States. Iran was tamped with once already by us, and they rose up and formed their current government. Now we want to interfere again, and it is not because of any humanitarian concerns.
    Imagine for a minute, places like Iran, Syria, and the Ukraine. They sit geographically at the bridge of oil producing regions and the mass of potential oil and gas customers in Europe. Even just controlling these 3 countries, with the ability to turn the gas taps up or down at will, would greatly affect the price of oil and LNG in Europe. Even a country like Yemen has a strategic water route for the transportation of these commodities.
    Now, the US has been in a conundrum for a little while. We have become one the largest producers of oil and natural gas, and yet we are still one of the biggest importers of this oil and gas also. This clearly shows that our production is not to provide for our domestic needs, but is designed to be exported. But after shipping our oil and gas halfway around the world, the price is not competitive with oil and gas that gets pumped through a pipeline from Russia or the Middle East.
    This tells me, at least, 2 simple things. First, We are subsidizing oil and gas companies with our tax dollars and national debt so they can export commodities elsewhere for profit. We also subsidize these same companies to import oil and gas for us at higher costs from elsewhere in the world for our national consumption. By design, this is not economical for us, but for the oil and gas industry who wallet-rapes the US taxpayers too stupid to question this madness.
    Secondly, any country that is a substantial producer of oil and gas, or has a pipeline running through their country, or has an oceanic shipping route, has a big role to play on the eventual price of oil and gas at it's consumer destination. If our US based companies can control these places, they can control the flow and price of oil and gas, artificially hiking the prices to make American oil and gas more competitive in Europe.
    This all leaves me with a big question- Why should we spend US taxpayer money, maybe in the trillions, along with American blood and complete turmoil in our own country, for a handful of oil and gas companies to make profits from a dying oil and gas industry? And if we lose thousands of American troops in these countries, they are sure to lose millions of lives, very few of them combatants. Most of the foreign dead will be civilians. Is this really ok? Doesn't this line of rationale run exactly contrary to what we hold as American values? Or just plain human values?
    I have long been a proponent of getting corporations out of our nation because of this type of madness. But I would settle for just ending taxpayer subsidies to any corporation, along with ending government support for corporate goals. We need to overturn the idea that money given to politicians is a form of free speech, and call it for what it really is- bribery and corruption. Cutting this issue at the root will go a long way towards solving the real core problems that start all this craziness to begin with. In a free and open market that is capitalism, we don't need to pick winners and losers with subsidies or government contracts that are rarely delivered upon to begin with, and never seem to end.

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    @RadioGod well said! I want to ad something to what you said about us being the number one oil producer. My beef with this is that our nation has been purposefully withholding using up our own recourses, we were holding on to them as precious reserves, and allowing other nations to plunder themselves on our behalf. When it was said that the new current administration was going to open up drilling on our soil, there was an uproar. We were told that it was for our own benefit, that it would help to make us energy independent. But as you stated above, that was not the true purpose. If that were the case then we wouldn't be selling it. We are not "just" selling it either. On top of selling, we are also trying to strong arm other nations into buying our LNG. https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/Int...The-World.html What is really happening here is that our nation is being plundered, not for the benefit of the people of this nation, but for the few who stand to make untold amounts of money.

    I also agree with what you said about subsidizing corporations, and what we do to other nations who have strategic locations, and or resources. I find it unimaginable that any person in their right mind could find it acceptable that we go to war with other nations or in order to control the flow of resources. How is it acceptable to kill millions of innocent civilians around the world, to prosper the bank accounts of just a few people? This is unconscionable. Even to kill just one person unjustly in order to prosper economically, is a crime against humanity, how much more so when we kill millions. These children who we bomb in the night, what have they done to deserve such a death sentence? The answer is nothing, nothing at all. Rather it is what we want from them, is the reason they must die. Our nation and other nations, use blood as currency.

    Many of us don't like to look at these atrocities it makes us feel uncomfortable. We would rather not. But the truth is, that every single day children are dying so that you may prosper. Every single day people cry out in fear and pain, and anger. Every day our nation is participating us in killing innocent people. They wage these wars in our names, with our tax dollars. Real living beings die, we are told it is for our protection, or for our prosperity. But is it really? I don't think so.

    Look at the case of Yemen. Are the Yemeni civilians a threat to anyone? Why do they have to die? But what we are told is that it is for our prosperity. We sell bombs to the Saudis, because it is great for our economy. I don't know about you, but I don't want to prosper if it means that my prosperity is traded for the blood of children.

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    Senior Member Just AnotherPerson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beevee View Post
    It's an interesting observation from somebody interested in politics (you) but there are 300m plus people to convince. Most view politics as an irritation and accept the consequences of whatever burden is placed on them by either party.
    I have a feeling you are too optomistic in that change is around the corner because 99.9% of Americans haven't suffered and cannot even conceive the results of war, when they haven't been directly affected by it.

    I'm a Brit, born in 1940 and can recall fleetingly my mother putting me under the bed every night when the air raid sirens gave warning of another German bombing raid on London.
    In the later years after the war, I went to school and on going and returning home, played with others on bomb sites. It's something we grew up with and learned to accept. It's almost 75 years later now and the war is in the past, maybe remembered but not spoken of and certainly not celebrated, other than on armistice day.

    Americans think they suffered the same on 9/11. They didn't. It happened in one place on one day within one hour. A bad as it was, it was not an attack on 50 American states in the way destruction occurred in London, France (not Paris as it was declared an open city) Leningrad, Dresden and in much the same fashion, whay the leaders of N.Korea, China, Iran etc have done to their people.
    Americans do never consider destruction on a massive scale because they have never experienced it. With what they did experience in New York is something miniscule by comparison. Not that I don't realise the impact on them but the soul searching is way over the top. It still gets regular mentions on the other forum, so it's still foremost in many peoples minds.
    You think the Iranians, Russians, N.Koreans and Chinese haven't noticed the never ending references to 9/11? Of course they have and it's their ammunition in any future conflict because they have experienced terror on aregular basis when Americans only talk about it. You think they don't notice the apoplexy at the death of just one soldier and the no one left behind philosophy?
    It's the greatest chink in American armour and your enemies won't hesitate to use it.
    Thank you for saying that so well. It is good to hear your perspective and why you see it the way you do. After all we all believe the way we do dependent upon all that we ourselves have been through or encountered.

    It is awful what you had to go through as a child. It is a shame that anyone in the world would have to go through something like that. I do agree that most of the people who haven't been through something like that, would find it hard to understand such a reality.

    You are right perhaps I am overly optimistic. But it is not that I feel 100% that what I said will come to pass. It is my sliver of hope, and no matter how bad things are I try to always find a way to make it better, and this is the only hope that I can see at this current time. Although it may be a sliver at this moment, I will hang onto it. I choose hope, even if it may never materialize into what I imagine it could be. I also am willing to change my hope at any time that another avenue arises. I have personally gotten through many hardships in my life with this view.

    For sure my view will not be agreed with by most. But it does have potential. I see that more people are waking up to this kind of ideal every day. Our numbers are small, but some is better than none.

    What you said about 9-11 is so true. Every since that day happened we cause a 9-11 or worse in the Middle East. Since 9-11 we have killed millions, who had nothing to do with 9-11. That is our excuse for raping their lands for resources, and control. We are not in it because of what happened in the 9-11 attacks. Just like we wont go to war with Iran just because they shot down our drone. Rather it is that we are looking for any excuse to go to war, and we will do what ever we have to, or manipulate, or exploit any event that we can, in order to get that green light to go to war. These wars are not wars waged by the people of the world. These are corporate wars.

    There is some proof on this. Most of the 9-11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. If we were in these wars because of what happened on 9-11 then why are we funding the Saudi's with weapons, and target assisting with them in Yemen, and assisting them in genocide? Not to mention that it has been proven that the Saudis are supplying al-Qaida in Yemen with the weapons that we are selling them. I mean come on, are you serious? If we really cared about 9-11 how could anyone condone us by proxy supplying weapons the very people who carried out the attacks on 9-11? It does not take much to see through the facade. The veil is pretty thin, and anyone with two good eyes can see right through the whole thing.

    EDIT:
    But I do get what you meant with the 9-11 thing, I had kind of went off in a different direction. People think that because of 9-11 that they understand what being under attack is like. But that it does not even compare. Sorry I had left that out of the reply. I do agree on that. It was one attack on one day. It does not compare to wondering if today is the day that you will get hit by a bullet, or listening to bombs dropping in the distance not knowing if you are about to get hit this time. Having to live in a destroyed city with destroyed infrastructure, and the hardships that go along with that. Also knowing people who have been killed. It is a life of fear that is pretty unimaginable to most. This is an entire different kind of fear. The fear we experienced from 9-11 was mostly from the media, and they used that fear as an excuse to remove our privacy and civil liberties here on our own soil. We gave the green light for war, and to be spied on, for our own safety.

    This even was used to harm our own citizens and plunder the Middle East and to kill millions.
    Last edited by Just AnotherPerson; 06-20-2019 at 07:51 PM.

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